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Nocturne and Reasons (Read 14216 times)
Eikichi Girl
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Re: Nocturne and Reasons
Reply #45 - 06/04/08 at 20:38:01
 
So, I'll keep this thread alive a little longer to ask if anyone actually gets the whole Aradia thing. What's the difference between her the other gods that Isamu, Hikawa, and Chiaki summoned? Better yet, what the hell happened to poor Yuko?
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Sir_Asura
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Re: Nocturne and Reasons
Reply #46 - 06/05/08 at 02:11:02
 
I thought it was pretty much explained (esp. if you played through the maniacs version of the game and went after the True Demon ending).  Aradia is a false god; she perhaps exists because people need her to and also because in order to gain any power she must be imbued with reason through many worshipers.  She has no power on her own.  That's why Yuko, who possesses no Reason other than freedom becomes the perfect host for Aradia.  Essentially, Yuko and Aradia together cannot collect any power or formulate any idea, so more or less Yuko is killed to realize the Nihilo god and Aradia ceases to be or ventures off to be a parasite goddess in another world, having lost her host.  
 
All the other gods have a reason and have power, Aradia lacks this, but because she is sorta a positive "void" of a god, as the player, choosing her, you are opening a path back to the world of freedom--the world before the Conception.  Aradia/Yuko is the perfect foil for Hikawa and his reason because she's just a positive less controlled spin on his idea.
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Isao Kronos
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Re: Nocturne and Reasons
Reply #47 - 06/05/08 at 22:54:50
 
All of the reasons except for the Neutral/QUIT FUCKING WITH THE WORLD YOU ASSHOLE GODS suck.
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Eikichi Girl
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Re: Nocturne and Reasons
Reply #48 - 06/06/08 at 21:40:07
 
Quote from Sir_Asura on 06/05/08 at 02:11:02:
I thought it was pretty much explained (esp. if you played through the maniacs version of the game and went after the True Demon ending).  Aradia is a false god; she perhaps exists because people need her to and also because in order to gain any power she must be imbued with reason through many worshipers.  She has no power on her own.  That's why Yuko, who possesses no Reason other than freedom becomes the perfect host for Aradia.  Essentially, Yuko and Aradia together cannot collect any power or formulate any idea, so more or less Yuko is killed to realize the Nihilo god and Aradia ceases to be or ventures off to be a parasite goddess in another world, having lost her host.  

All the other gods have a reason and have power, Aradia lacks this, but because she is sorta a positive "void" of a god, as the player, choosing her, you are opening a path back to the world of freedom--the world before the Conception.  Aradia/Yuko is the perfect foil for Hikawa and his reason because she's just a positive less controlled spin on his idea.  

 
Oh, okay. I have played through the game before, and was recently replaying the Diet building level. Most of what you said was mentioned in the Kalpa cut-scenes, but I never understood what exactly they meant by "false" god.
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RMarqeus
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Re: Nocturne and Reasons
Reply #49 - 06/09/08 at 23:05:53
 
Quote from Eikichi Girl on 05/24/08 at 19:11:25:
I just got my re-print copy of SMT 3 and I was thinking.In SMT: Nocturne, we see how each character comes to find their respective "reason", but if you asked me each world born from their reasons would've sucked. Do you think that maybe humans are just inherently incapable of creating a true paradise? Or were the humans in this game just bat**** crazy deep down inside?

 
People cannot fathom such things...there is no such thing as Utopia/Paradise with humans around.
 
Quote from Eikichi Girl on 05/24/08 at 19:11:25:
Also, what would your reasons be? It's an old question, but we have a lot of new people so I thought I'd ask again with the reprint being released.

 
Demon.
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ariseishirou
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Re: Nocturne and Reasons
Reply #50 - 06/10/08 at 01:47:38
 
Quote from Eikichi Girl on 05/24/08 at 19:11:25:
Also, what would your reasons be? It's an old question, but we have a lot of new people so I thought I'd ask again with the reprint being released.

 
Assuming I didn't chicken out/get ridden by guilt and go Neutral because it's safe and what I know, True Demon.
 
Don't get me wrong, freedom is awesome, but I thought the game made it pretty clear (at least in the Maniax/NA release) that the Neutral ending will only lead to another Conception, in time. The only way to break the cycle and cast off the influence of the Divine Will permanently is to go True Demon, even if it means temporarily joining forces with another higher power.
 
But picking from the realized Reasons and not Demon/True Demon/Neutral, I'd say Shijima. I don't like the idea of endless conflict, or being forever alone. Besides, as much smack as Yuko talks about it, who's to say she's right? Perhaps in a world where each sublimates his or her will to the whole, we wouldn't have a world where millions starve and the privileged don't give a damn >_>
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Louis Cypher
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Re: Nocturne and Reasons
Reply #51 - 06/10/08 at 01:56:50
 
...I fail to see what's wrong with Conceptions. If anything YHVH is basically right in pulling those off, no point is letting the same old stuff occur forever.
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ariseishirou
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Re: Nocturne and Reasons
Reply #52 - 06/10/08 at 02:08:28
 
Yeah, but they occur when He wills it, so humankind will never be free of divine influence until they are gone; better that men make and unmake the world with their own hands.  
 
(As in, well, real life.)
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Sir_Asura
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Re: Nocturne and Reasons
Reply #53 - 06/10/08 at 03:13:53
 
Yeah, but honestly, I think God is probably in a perpetual state of "willing it."  Hikawa was just like, "Honey are you in the mood," and God was like, "Hellz yea."  Then Yuko went all psycho virgin sacrifice on our asses, and you got a demon spawn gnawing through your eye.  
 
Don't deny it; you know you want it.
 
Obviously, humans ignite the conception, and humans fertilize the new world.  God is present, but there has to be a partnership between humans and divinity; and one in which I would be willing to say humans are more important in the equation.  They do all the work.  In the end the conception is a really good thing.  If God didn't have a conception for a while, I think he might be worried.   He might ask someone, "Can I has preggers? LOLZ?"  Just think of it on the terms of spontaneous abortions and lol cats and embrace it.
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ariseishirou
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Re: Nocturne and Reasons
Reply #54 - 06/10/08 at 03:25:03
 
Quote from Sir_Asura on 06/10/08 at 03:13:53:
He might ask someone, "Can I has preggers? LOLZ?"  Just think of it on the terms of spontaneous abortions and lol cats and embrace it.

 
...But are these lol cats alligned with Chaos or Law? That is the question.
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Sir_Asura
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Re: Nocturne and Reasons
Reply #55 - 06/10/08 at 03:35:35
 
Depends on whether or not you gave them fancy feast for dinner.  Just think of Nekomata, and how she wanted to play in Shibuya.
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ariseishirou
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Re: Nocturne and Reasons
Reply #56 - 06/10/08 at 03:47:14
 
I'm not sure which side fancy feast puts them on, exactly. Or whether or not they are eternally at war with the iams lol cats.
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MutheSquirrel
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Re: Nocturne and Reasons
Reply #57 - 06/16/08 at 14:38:14
 
I never liked any of the Reasons, thus why first playthrough I got NO FINAL BATTLE as I didn't go true demon. >>
 
Come on, they coulda' given you something... @@
 
Hmm, I think it's pretty much impossible to create a paradise for "everyone" as everyone has their own ideas of what paradise is, what they want and how they want others to act...
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Re: Nocturne and Reasons
Reply #58 - 07/04/08 at 17:49:33
 
Quote from 0kami7777 on 05/26/08 at 12:09:19:
Well, also factor in that for a very long period of time in Japan all Christians were put to death. Christianity would have been a more prevalent religion to this day if it wasn't for a few emperors spreading the idea that it's some crazy shadowy faith.

 
Well... the real reason for the Japanese's distaste of Christianity is pretty easy to find by simply studying a little Japanese History. What happened is that the Jesuit tried to control Japan first by allying with the strongest feudal lord of that period, Oda Nobunaga ( who converted to Christianity trying to undermine the Buddhist grip on power ), then after his death by buying the favour of a lot of local lords with gold (who the Spanish Jesuits had in aboundance ) and by helping Hideyoshi, an aide of Nobunaga who had basically become the de facto ruler of Japan, who begrudgingly gave them free rein.
 
With the death of Hideyoshi and the rise to power of Ieyasu Tokugawa the rift between jesuit-controlled lords and the government escalated, until one last climatic battle where the Christians were defeated.
This struggle of power is what actually motivated the closing of the frontiers of Japan to all commerce with the west ( with the exception of the Protestant countries of North Europe, probably motivated by the personal friendship of Ieyasu with a shipwrecked Dutch who was brought to his court, where he explained most of the shady catholic politics of that period).
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0kami7777
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Re: Nocturne and Reasons
Reply #59 - 07/06/08 at 21:01:07
 
^ Which could also explain why I've seen more pro-Protestant Japanese media (such as Hellsing) than Catholic. I guess it's becuase Protestants are considered more liberal and moreakin to Buddhism in that there is no centralized powerhold on the religion like the Vatican.
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